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Brad Rock: BYU should warn Liberty independence is no picnic

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  • BobbyPaluga Austin, TX
    May 20, 2017 8:38 a.m.

    Sorry Rock, but Liberty hasn't earned the good education label. BYU has been no lower than #66 in Best Schools in since at least 2010, a Tier 1 university and Forbes best university in the state of Utah. It does the school little good being linked academically with LU. Liberty is a Tier 4 school and that's as low as it goes. If you plan on spending your life as a Fundamentalist Evangelical preacher you can't do better than Liberty, otherwise it's a diploma mill with sketchy accreditation from a regional body as well as a group of Evangelical College leaders.
    Their FIRM beliefs on Creation "science" mimic the FLDS almost perfectly. I have no idea how they think they can manage to survive the FBS, forming their own TV pay-to-view network will be a necessity.
    As for BYU scheduling Liberty the Cougars can't afford to waste an once of their well earned national rep lifting up Liberty, very bad move Tom. Who else has agreed to go home and home? Try New Mexico St.

  • Bob67 Glenn Dale, MD
    May 18, 2017 5:33 p.m.

    To become competitive at a high level, a team must play quality opponents. To schedule more quality opponents, an independent must build its reputation by winning.

    The winning must come first. Complaining about the scheduling after a disappointing season is just impatient. BYU was a very exciting team to watch last year, and lost close games when Jamaal was out or injured.

    Computer rankings will give you respect, without any hype based on the "reputation" of the opponent. Humans know Alabama, but the computers know in a precise way how their season went.

    If BYU wants a tougher schedule, they just need to win more games.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 18, 2017 4:40 p.m.

    Samwise:

    Holmoe scheduled the Home-&-Home because they no longer have the clout to schedule one-offs, or 2-for-1s anymore.....unless they're the ones on the "midmajory" side of that arrangement.

    If Holmoe were nice, he wouldn't have been sticking it to the Aggies for all those 2-for-1s in the very recent past. He's NOT nice. He's desperate. There's a big difference.

  • Samwise Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2017 6:58 a.m.

    It's laughable to say "they need each other". BYU doesn't need Liberty. The home and home scheduling agreement was just being nice to a small newly independent and newly FBS school. From a business perspective it makes no sense. Scheduling them one and done at LES would have made business sense (and Liberty would have gladly accepted that offer). Scheduling a home and home was just Holmoe being unnecessarily nice. He must sometimes forget that college football is a business. As a BYU fan I am annoyed by this scheduling agreement, but I understand why Holmoe did it. But it makes me wonder if he is just too nice of a guy, and not business minded enough, to be an AD who is capable of moving BYU up to the next level.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    May 17, 2017 10:24 p.m.

    As a retired Navy Seal Said "Good!" Meaning adversity is good. What do we learn from it. Let the naysayers belly ache into oblivion.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 17, 2017 2:31 p.m.

    "BYU should warn Liberty independence is no picnic"

    Yeah. BYU had to schedule Liberty.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    May 17, 2017 11:57 a.m.

    Vermonter: "Oh, and its highly likely BYU stuck with the WAC and MWC because of their main rival."

    Interesting. Where were they going to go?

    Q Diesel: "That is ridiculous of BYU to agree to a away game at a small time college like that. If they lose either one of these games they will never hear the end of it and the season will be shot with a bad loss like that."

    Now you know how Utah fans feel when they have to play BYU-P.

  • Den Den West Jordan, UT
    May 17, 2017 11:49 a.m.

    Let's keep this in perspective...BYU participates in 19 NCAA sports, men & women. Football is the only one independent.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    May 17, 2017 11:35 a.m.

    Naval. "..... Liberty
    Boom! There's the cougars' 2nd team necessary to make sense of an invite".

    Perfect; The BYU-P of the east vs, the Liberty of the west.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    May 17, 2017 9:57 a.m.

    Independence no picnic?

    All I've been reading about on the DNews is how life couldn't get any better. Independence was somehow better than P5 membership.

    I'm confused now.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    May 17, 2017 9:43 a.m.

    Who cares about Liberty? Really.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2017 9:15 a.m.

    Vermonter "BYU would likely end football rather than return to losing money in the MWC."
    Fans have an incorrect impression that the MWC is just like it was when BYU left. Television has improved and (important to you) money has improved. A couple of years ago, when Boise made yet another NY6 game, they earned more football money than BYU did.

    Just look at the most recent CFP revenue distribution:
    Typical P5 team - $5 million
    Notre Dame - $2.9 million
    MWC team - $1.7 million
    BYU, Army, UMass - $310 thousand *

    * Liberty will get a share of this pool of money

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    May 17, 2017 8:02 a.m.

    @JohnInSLC.
    You can call it arrogance if you like. But, BYU was looking for exposure--i.e. the right to broadcast their games to alumni and fans across the US who want to see BYU games. TV deals with the MWC and the Big 12 severely hindered that goal.

    And we aren't even talking about finances. BYU likes to operate in the black. MWC does not work now, and will not work in the future. BYU would likely end football rather than return to losing money in the MWC.

    Oh, and its highly likely BYU stuck with the WAC and MWC because of their main rival (how many trustees have ties to both BYU and U of U?). Once Utah left the MWC, no need for BYU to stick around. Oh, and I don't blame Utah one little bit for jumping to the PAC when they had the chance. Absolutely the right thing for their program to do.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 17, 2017 7:21 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil - Durham, NC
    May 16, 2017 11:15 p.m.

    "Nope; when was the last time an undefeated P5 team not make the playoff? "

    Well that is obvious. An undefeated P5 means it will have won its conference championship, making them eligible for the playoffs. Without a conference championship... and independent even with a perfect record is going to still have a longer road to the playoffs... and will still lose out to a one loss Alabama.
    ---------
    There are only two independents that even applies to. BYU and Notre Dame. Do you honestly think an undefeated Notre Dame doesn't make the playoff? Get real. That's my point; you go undefeated as P5; you are in. You are probably in with one loss. An undefeated UCLA, Utah, Arizona get's in over a 2 loss anyone. Don't kid your self.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 17, 2017 6:28 a.m.

    Vermonter:

    The "powers that be" at the Y most definitely ARE hypocrites. Don't forget about all those 2-for-1s the cougars exacted from Utah St. from 1983-2013. And they also did it to NM State and San Jose St as well. Just because they don't do it anymore, that has nothing to do with them not being hypocrites any longer. It's about them not having the clout to pull it off anymore. The Y now needs them, more than they need the Y.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    May 17, 2017 3:23 a.m.

    Weird article. Liberty had no choice but to be independent. Not really a choice if they wanted to be in FBS. Buy on the other hand is in a conference except for football. And they have the real options to be in MWC or WAC if they want.

    It is hilarious to see all the BYU backers who trumped up independence as the greatest thing on earth now scrambling to find excuses for why nobody wants their team. Guess what, this isn't anything new. The smart people told those BYU backers that independence wasn't good and it would be a complete flop, but the arrogance of those claiming to be smart won over and now here they are... amazing they still haven't figured it out.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 16, 2017 11:15 p.m.

    "Nope; when was the last time an undefeated P5 team not make the playoff? "

    Well that is obvious. An undefeated P5 means it will have won its conference championship, making them eligible for the playoffs. Without a conference championship... and independent even with a perfect record is going to still have a longer road to the playoffs... and will still lose out to a one loss Alabama.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 16, 2017 11:15 p.m.

    "For BYU to turn its nose upward and sniff . . . would be arrogant and hypocritical. Thankfully, that is not (and hopefully never will be) BYU."

    Vermonter:

    Why do you think the coogs are still indy? They arrogantly stuck their nose in the air over TV rights when the Big12 first came calling, which left a lasting impression with those member schools.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    May 16, 2017 10:18 p.m.

    @tomahawk red.
    Nice try. Everyone knows that BYU is USU's Super Bowl. USU plays their guts out against BYU. And if USU wins, all is forgiven.

    @QDiesel.
    Its attitudes like your post that keep P5 conference teams from scheduling BYU. Nothing to gain, everything to lose. Nope. That would only make BYU hypocritical. The powers-that-be at BYU are not hypocrites. Liberty is on the schedule, as they should be.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    May 16, 2017 6:11 p.m.

    Vermonter - Plymouth, MI
    May 16, 2017 5:10 p.m.

    I am only truly disappointed when BYU has not been competitive at the highest levels (i.e. BYU-Michigan in 2015). Most of the time, I am not disappointed.

    ---------

    Not even when they lose to USU?

  • QDiesel SLC, UT
    May 16, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    That is ridiculous of BYU to agree to a away game at a small time college like that. If they lose either one of these games they will never hear the end of it and the season will be shot with a bad loss like that. Nothing to gain with games like these and everything to lose. Maybe BYU needs to go back to the Mountain West if they can't find good suitable opponents. I want to see at least 7 to 8 schools from the Power 5 conferences scheduled every year and Utah State, Boise State on there as well and I don't care if they go 7-5 or 6-6 if we get some good football to watch. BYU hasn't really had a super good team since the 96 Cotton Bowl team and I'm not getting my hopes up for playoffs or BCS games anymore so just play a tough schedule I say.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    May 16, 2017 5:10 p.m.

    The problem for BYU since the 80s has been unrealistic expectations.

    Despite Bronco Mendenhall's Quest for Excellence musings, the real goal for BYU Athletics has always been to compete at the highest levels. I am only truly disappointed when BYU has not been competitive at the highest levels (i.e. BYU-Michigan in 2015). Most of the time, I am not disappointed.

    As for scheduling Liberty, why should BYU not give them the opportunity that so many so-called top-notch programs have denied to BYU in the past and will in the future. For BYU to turn its nose upward and sniff at the thought of playing Liberty would be arrogant and hypocritical. Thankfully, that is not (and hopefully never will be) BYU.

    Like so many other Eastern US alumni of BYU, I will gladly make the trip to Lynchburg, and enjoy the game with a program and their fans that will truly appreciate the opportunity to be on the same field with BYU.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 16, 2017 4:59 p.m.

    Sanefan - Wellsville, UT
    May 16, 2017 4:23 p.m.

    Thank you agarret, you are absolutely correct. A one, maybe even 2 loss Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State and a handful of others would go to the playoffs instead of 80% of an undefeated P 5 teams. Don't believe me,
    -----------
    Nope; when was the last time an undefeated P5 team not make the playoff? Good Grief; at least use a fact or two once in a while.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 16, 2017 4:45 p.m.

    Liberty is a long way off from having any aspirations of playing for a national title, and are pretty content with any bowl invitation. The difference is that one team understands its near term prospects, while the other's fan base (of which I am a member of) has delusions of grandeur that just are not realistic right now.

    I would like to see a conference of like minded schools where Sunday play isn't required. There are more than a few of them that would like the option. Perhaps if this trend continues, that may become a reality. Unfortunately right now I would be one of the last people willing to put money down that it is a possibility or will ever happen.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    May 16, 2017 4:23 p.m.

    Thank you agarret, you are absolutely correct. A one, maybe even 2 loss Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State and a handful of others would go to the playoffs instead of 80% of an undefeated P 5 teams. Don't believe me, then how in the heck does a Ohio State who not only didn't win its conference, but didn't even play in the Championship game get an invite. And the key word is INVITE folks, it's not earned, it's just a privileged club and everyone else is just paying dues.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    May 16, 2017 4:14 p.m.

    Well, at first I was pretty ambivalent about BYU playing Liberty (although I like their commercials on Fox News), but after learning that Husker great Turner Gill is the coach I excited and looking forward to the game.

  • Richard Biggins South Jordan, UT
    May 16, 2017 3:51 p.m.

    BYU and Liberty should play more. They are an obvious, natural rival of each other. It only makes sense.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 16, 2017 3:37 p.m.

    Frozen Fractals:

    I don't see the MWC as an option, but C-USA could turn out to be a perfect fit for them. Note:

    1. In way would the MWC consider expanding to be a 13-team league. To make re-inviting the cougs make any sense at all, they'd need a 14th team to balance the divisions. And who might that be? There are no additional teams remaining in the MWC's footprint that would make sense to add the cougars.

    2. I still don't believe the cougars could get the requisite 9 "yea" votes for readmission to the MWC anyway.

    3. C-USA is already at 14 teams, but it's split between an "East" and "West" division. The "West" division includes teams from Texas to Alabama. The travel is high, but hey...what other options do they have? And to balance out C-USA's division, they'd need a team in the "East". The "East" division already includes Old Dominion (Norfolk, VA) and Marshall (Huntington, WV). And sandwiched right between those two institutions is.....

    .....Liberty

    Boom! There's the cougars' 2nd team necessary to make sense of an invite.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    May 16, 2017 3:28 p.m.

    Didn't trump do that when he was trying to add fluff to his speech there the other day? I think he did.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2017 3:11 p.m.

    Liberty has a bit more leeway to work with. They could join something like the Sun Belt conference and that'd still be seen as an upgrade of sorts while BYU certainly can't really join anything other than the MWC (which would be like admitting a mistake) if they can't get into the P5.

  • Danite Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2017 3:06 p.m.

    It all depends on your definition of success. If you are seeking greater visibility for a fine religious school, the path BYU and Liberty are on make a lot of sense. LIberty will receive much more attention at the FBS level, even as an Independent than dominating at the FCS level.

    If your goal is to win National Championships, you're in big trouble because there is not a realistic shot of that taking place anyway.

  • BYU_Husker Strasburg, CO
    May 16, 2017 2:52 p.m.

    It's almost as if BYU is the only school to ever schedule a FCS or weak FBS opponent...

    I can't say I know much about Liberty football (other than head coach Turner Gill, of course), but I'd wager that Liberty isn't receiving any P5, or even any G5 invites, considering they just turned FBS, and they're not named North Dakota State. I'm sure they'll jump in the MAC or something as soon as they get the chance.

  • agarrett PROVO, UT
    May 16, 2017 2:41 p.m.

    Comparing BYU to Liberty is a joke. BYU signed a multi-million dollar contract with ESPN when they went Independent. If not for that, it's likely BYU would not have gone Independent. Liberty, on the other hand, is going independent just for the heck of it--with no guaranteed paycheck waiting for them.

    Another beef I have with this article it where it says "no realistic path to the playoff." Sorry Brad, but any team in FBS outside of the fringe-FBS conference like the Sun Belt and MAC have a path to the playoff if they win all their games. BYU's odds of getting to the playoff are just the same now as they would be in the MWC or even the Big 12 (which is to say: not good). It's not like their odds are any less now that they are Independent. In fact, I would argue they are even greater because every year some random news article lists BYU as a "CFP Darkhorse" simply because they ARE independent and have an interesting schedule.

    At the end of the day though, there are realistically only about 10-12 teams that actually have a shot at the CFP. I'll start the list for you: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State...you can fill in the rest.